I don't normally cite articles outside the Carnival, but I think this particular article, posted by Don Bryant at From My Heart, Out of My Mind deserves reading for those who are trying to puzzle out the evangelical move to the Fathers. Whether your are an evangelical or a curious Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, this is well worth reading.
Peace,
Phil
3 comments:
It is indeed an interesting article. I wonder where this trend will lead, if it is indeed a trend.
The most obvious issue is that the early church led to a catholic body. I suppose one could argue that if the church after 500 had followed a path more consistent with the fathers, they would not have landed up where Hus, Luther and the other reformers found them. But it is a long walk from there to Calvin, and even longer to what modern 'Calvinists' say Calvin said.
It should be fascinating to see where all this leads!
FWIW
jimB
I think you are right about the catholicism. I honestly view the Reformation as a failure of catholicism on both sides of the dispute. The Reformers forgot about the bits about unity and the the Roman Catholics failed to hear the legitimate issues the Reformers had. In many ways, if it were the tradition in the English speaking world to celebrate Reformation Day (Oct 31st), I think we should be mourning.
Peace,
Phil
1. Bryan Litfin said,
March 22, 2008 @ 10:25 BTW, like modern Protestantism, modern Roman Catholicism is also very different from the Ancient Church.
1. dorothy morris said,
May 4, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
On 22 March 2008, Bryan Litfin said that "BTW, like modern Protestantism, modern Roman Catholicism is also very different from the Ancient Church".
If we can accept that the "ancient church" is the Church established by Jesus Christ as in "I will build my church", then does this mean that neither Protestanism nor Roman Catholicism is the Church that Jesus Christ established?
So where is this ancient Church?
STEVE RAY HERE: The words in quotations deal with a quantitative difference, not a qaulitative difference. The oak tree looks quantitatively different than the sampling, even more different than the acorn; yet, qualitatively they are the same thing. The acorn and the sampling, though looking different than the tree are organically the same thing.
The Early Church is the sapling that has grown into the full grown tree. You can also see it as the bud of the flower that has now opened up in all its glory. Jesus used a parable similar to this in Matthew 13 — the smallest seed that is planted in the ground which qualitatively grows into a large tree, quantitatively different, but organically the same. The tree when grown can nest all the birds of the world. The same is true of the Catholic Church which has now spread its beautiful branches through the whole world. I am proud to be a Catholic!
1. dorothy morris said,
May 7, 2008 @ 7:10 am
Truly, I am overwhelmed - that from Jesus Christ, the seed became the sapling being the early church of the fathers, and the fully grown tree is the Catholic Church.
Now then, let me get back to the other part of Mr. Litfin’s comment that modern Protestantism is very different from the ancient church.
Is this merely a way of denying the situation as you had explained, or is it not possible that from the “sapling” TWO branches grew to full maturity?
But in any case, I am aware that Protestantism, is a sapling/fully grown tree from the seed of Luther beginning at around 1520, so would Mr. Litfin care to explain what exactly are these differences.
Again from Mr. Litfin we can understand that the “indwelling” of the Holy Spirit in both the “believing individual reader” and the “whole collective believing community” would lead them to the TRUTH.
What can/should happen when both disagree with one another as this is what happened when Luther, an individual believer disagreed with the whole collective community of the ancient church?
Sorry for being bothersome but it seems that Mr. Ray's blog is experiencing some problems, and I am hoping that you maybe able to help me out.
Many thanks, Dorothy Morris
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