tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22356730.post5190718684441546295..comments2023-10-29T20:50:33.666-04:00Comments on hyperekperissou: Origen and Living TraditionPhil Sniderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08944477827816680359noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22356730.post-92123051637647151982007-10-12T11:01:00.000-04:002007-10-12T11:01:00.000-04:00It seems to me that miracles, while not everyday o...It seems to me that miracles, while not everyday occurrences, certainly happen more often than, say, a meteorite falls on somebody's house. It's also well-attested in modern times that certain people, as part of their holiness of life, seem to shed miracles like I shed hair. One thinks of Padre Pio, or Solanus Casey in Detroit. <BR/><BR/>Amusingly, these miracles are often de-emphasized in modern retellings. For example, one hears a great deal of St. Martin de Porres the servant of the poor, and of his mulatto heritage. But in Peru, one would hear a great deal more about his incidental miracle-working, which included the teleportation of an entire class of novices home to the monastery from a picnic, so as not to get them in trouble for being late. (Supported by actual testimony by the teleported guys.)So the age of miracles is certainly not over for certain people! <BR/><BR/>But a good many people have witnessed miracles at least once in their lives; the most practical people will occasionally come out with the most startling stories. But it's not something our culture thinks is normal, so we don't normally talk about it.Bansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22356730.post-61470562651330730982007-10-11T07:45:00.000-04:002007-10-11T07:45:00.000-04:00I think I'm with dj on this. There is a degree to ...I think I'm with dj on this. There is a degree to which we in the West have been trained out of seeing miracles, rather seeking 'plausible' explanations better. There is a long tradition of demythologizing and rationalizing miracle stories, but there is always assumed the proposition that miracles don't happen. That rather skews the results, doesn't it?<BR/><BR/>Peace, <BR/>PhilPhil Sniderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08944477827816680359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22356730.post-61997940053271827162007-10-08T23:46:00.000-04:002007-10-08T23:46:00.000-04:00Hi Jim,One of the Desert Fathers (not sure which o...Hi Jim,<BR/><BR/>One of the Desert Fathers (not sure which one... I don't have the cite in front of me at the moment), when asked by one of his disciples whether anyone would <B>ever</B> be able to perform miracles such as that brotherhood could perform said, "There will come a time when simply to utter the name "Jesus" in faith will be a greater miracle than any we have performed, seen, or even heard of." <BR/><BR/>It might be that, rather than a dearth of miracles, we may simply not have the spiritual vision to see them.<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/>djAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22356730.post-4370246601326013482007-10-03T16:44:00.000-04:002007-10-03T16:44:00.000-04:00Hi Phil,I have been thinking about miracles. I fi...Hi Phil,<BR/><BR/>I have been thinking about miracles. I find myself conflicted. If I don't accept St. Martin's for some reason, can I accept St. Peter's? If so is my basis an appeal to authority, "The Bible Tells Me So?" Hmm....<BR/><BR/>And yet, unless we consider an occaisional slip into honesty by a politician, I do not see any miracles now. If the answer to why is that we do not expect them, then there are issues with the expectations in the saint's era.<BR/><BR/>Not a simple question by any means.<BR/><BR/>FWIW<BR/>jimBJimBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17312606954135884910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22356730.post-4735197579094824212007-09-24T09:03:00.000-04:002007-09-24T09:03:00.000-04:00I take your point on the complexity of the issue w...I take your point on the complexity of the issue with Origen and thank you for the correction (there are so many Gregorys!). Origen is not an easy person to place, so I was contracting my account considerably to get to my main point. Perhaps I contracted to much. <BR/><BR/>Peace, <BR/>PhilPhil Sniderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08944477827816680359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22356730.post-56532565745566274562007-09-23T17:34:00.000-04:002007-09-23T17:34:00.000-04:00St Gregory the Theologian is Gregory Nazianzen, fo...St Gregory the Theologian is Gregory Nazianzen, for future reference. St Gregory Thaumaturgus lived about a century earlier.<BR/><BR/>Also, the situation wasn't quite as simple as described. Origen was certainly very well-respected in his lifetime as a great thinker and writer, and died without being accused of heresy. A number of people took his work and ran with it, which folks were generally termed Origenists. It's these who were, unlike Origen, adamant on some of Origen's positions, placing them in a position of heresy during the course of the fourth century. From what we can tell, they very likely did interpolate passages into Origen's writings, as this is universally said to have occurred by contemporary writers, thus the need for the Philokalia ("best of") of Origen by SS Basil and Gregory. Remember that much the same is in evidence with Rufinus and Jerome, the latter of which accused the former of too much cleaning up of Origen in his translation work. Origen was a great thinker, a great hypothetical theologian, speaking in the vernacular of the Academy (quite literally!) of his day: neo-Platonism. But it was all just talk, suggestion and theory, not intended for dogma. Dogmatizing these writings, interpolated or not, by the Origenists led to their condemnation. Origen's writings survived, likely even autograph copies, along with the rest of his library at Caesarea Maritima, until that library and all its treasures (including Origen's immense Hexapla!) was burned by the Muslims. After that, Rufinus' translations have been the primary source, unfortunately.Kevin P. Edgecombhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16590490181739464401noreply@blogger.com